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Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:55 am Post subject: Vaccinations & epeleptic dogs

My oldest Weston is epeleptic. On another board a lady told me that I should never give him any more shots since he is epeleptic. A page that I visited said that they should have a titer test done so that they can tell if the animal actually needs shots or not. Yet another lady said that she didnt even give her epeleptic dog heartworm pills. (I pretty much find that silly because last time I went to get my dogs tested Marley (the non-epeleptic) tested low positive. (thankfully though the vet said I just need to give her the prevention) I would rather deal with a few side effects than have to deal with heartworms.) I have been reading up on how most vets are recommending that you only vaccinate every three years. I guess I have a couple questions.

1)Should I not be giving weston his yearly shots because he is epeleptic? What about heartworm prevention? (Misquitoes are super bad here during the summer.) If I should not be giving him his shots then can I still get him liscensed every year? The lady was saying that if she lived in the city her vet could just write and tell them that he can not get the shot due to medical reasons. Someone else on the board brought up a good point which is on the shot it says not to give to an unhealthy animal & having epilepsy is about as unhealthy as an animal can get.

2)If the vaccinations are only supposed to be given every 3 years then how do you get them liscensed (you only have to have rabies) every year or do the tags last 3 years?

3)Are most vets recognizing the only 3 year thing because mine is still sending me a reminder every year.

4)What exactly is a titer test?

I would prefer to pump as little as possible into my animals without them being at risk. What do you all think about the 3 year shot schedule? I have also heard that the 4 in one shots are very bad. My vet gives the 4 in one shots. Am I putting my dogs at risk? Thank you all for your responses in advance.

It wouldnt let me vote but my answer was other...

1)Should I not be giving weston his yearly shots because he is epeleptic?

IMO, no. I dont give my healthy animals yearly shots for anything. Boosters are a waste of your money, and a huge dissatifaction done to a dog's immune system. Once the antibodies are in the system, they are there to stay. Your body doesnt forget what it was exposed to and keeps the antibodies in case the animal was to ever get X disease. The Rabies vaccine last for 7-9 years in the dog's system. I would suggest you research "vaccinosis"

What about heartworm prevention?

I do give HW preventative. I give Ivermectin, diluted every 45 days. I also give garlic for fleas and ticks and have not had a flea problem in 3 years and garlic is all I have used. I also raw feed so that makes a difference as well. I wouldnt trust garlic to work on a kibble fed dog. I would look into the raw diet as well. My friend rescued a Great Dane with seizures-severe grand mal seizures 3-4 times a day. She started the raw diet and stopped all vaccines and within 6 months she was off all medication and has not had one seizure in years.

2)If the vaccinations are only supposed to be given every 3 years then how do you get them liscensed (you only have to have rabies) every year or do the tags last 3 years?

Rabies is the only vaccine required by law. The others are not. You will not have a problem getting them licensed without the other shots.

3)Are most vets recognizing the only 3 year thing because mine is still sending me a reminder every year.

No. The reason isnt for the health of your dog, it is for the dent that the 3 year vaccine would make in their pocket. They pay roughly $2 for a shot (that is on the expensive end) and then charge you $20-30 per shot. Huge profit to be made yearly.

4)What exactly is a titer test?

A titer test is a blood test that tests the antibody level in the dogs system. If it is below a certain point the dog is "no longer immune" Titer tests can be very expensive. The Rabies shot last 7-9 years in the system. The reason I say lasts is b/c if you titer the dog, you will see that after this time the immunity will be low according to the test but in truth, the dog is still immune even though the #s are low to a vet. I hope that made sense Smile

What do you all think about the 3 year shot schedule?

Rabies, yes b/c it is the law even though it last several years in the system.

I have also heard that the 4 in one shots are very bad.

They are bad, they overload the immune system making the animal more vulnerable to another disease, the disease it was vaccinated for (if given the modified-live or live version), auto-immune problems and/or allergies.

My vet gives the 4 in one shots. Am I putting my dogs at risk?

Yes you are. I would stop all vaccines except rabies since that is the law but you can always run a titers to test for the rabies immunity level.

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:44 pm Post subject:

How much does a Titer test cost??? You have got me curious.

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:27 pm Post subject:

At my vet's office it is $150 just for a distemper titer. That doesnt include the 5 or so others that they titer for.

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:21 am Post subject:

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with the other poster . . . I do update my pets shots yearly - even the indoor only cats! Your immune system will not "remember" a shot for your entire lifetime, hence they recommend updating them yearly. There is also a new Distemper combo shot on the market that will last for three years (and only needs to be updated with the Rabies). If you do not want to bring your pet into the vet's office yearly to update their Distemper shot, do it at home. You can buy them at the vet's office or online for cheap - my vet's office sells them to people for like $5. It is true that you are not supposed to vaccinate an ill animal, and by ill they mean kennel cough, viral infections, bacterial infections, etc. In these cases they don't want to overload the immune system. Epilepsy has nothing to do with your immune system - your pet is better off running the VERY slight risk of vaccine reaction than contracting a serious disease like Parvo, Distemper, Lepto, etc. These diseases can be contracted at any age, even if they have no interaction with other dogs.

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:00 am Post subject:

Can I ask how much research you have done on vaccines? or is this what your vet tells you? I have hundreds of hours in vaccines for dogs, and humans.

Here are some sites for the original poster

http://www.mercola.com/2003/apr/2/dog_vaccines.htm

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/petvacc.htm

http://www.homestead.com/malteseluv/VaccinationInfo.html

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/catique/records/vacc1.html

These are just a few.....

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:19 pm Post subject:

I used to have a link to the University of Wisconsin, that gave all the details on a particular study, but it's gone, now. Probably upset too many vets, to know their clients getting annual boosters for their pets might read it. Wink

The part I found interesting, was that not only did the dogs have titers showing immunity to the diseases they had been vaccinated for 7 years earlier, but after more time went on and some of the dogs' titers dropped, they challenged the dogs with the disease and they still didn't get sick. I'm not saying it was morally right for them to do that, but I still found it very interesting.

If anyone has a link to a site that has a copy of this information, I would love for you to post it. It's so much easier to discuss these topics if you can read the actual study results in detail.

Over the last few years, all of the veterinary schools in this country have changed their recommendations and what they teach the vets they are training. They do not recommend yearly vaccines for viral diseases in adult dogs, with a couple of exceptions for the rabies vaccine. The first booster is still recommended at one year, then they can go to a three year interval, unless the area has a law requiring annual vaccination for rabies. Where I live, the law specifies a booster every three years.

Not all vets keep themselves well educated. Not all vets are willing to change how they run their practices. We all want to believe that our vet knows best and very few vets will admit to ignorance on a topic, to a client.

If the financial ramifications for many vets hadn't terrified them when some of this information initially came to light, I think the profession as a whole would have dealt with it in a better way. As it was, they left it up to the individual vet to handle it any way they wanted. Well, that was a good choice for many of the vets, but it certainly was a disservice to their clients.

Change is tough.

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:27 pm Post subject:

I also NEVER vax for corona, lepto, KC etc. in the first year. Just DHPP (killed or MLV) and rabies (killed) for puppy vaccinations and then a booster at one year of the same.

After that I titer for everything but rabies after 1 yr. And my sr. dog, I don't vax at all (she has a chronic medical condition and per the vax label, you should not vax dogs that are ill. I have a medical waiver signed by my vet.)

My vet doesn't vax her dogs either... so she is happy to titer rather than push vaccines!!

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:16 pm Post subject: vaccinating epileptic dogs

Q. Should dogs with epilepsy still be vaccinated?

A. Vaccinations are not necessary for dogs who already have sufficient protection, and most vaccines given today offer many years of protection (at least three years, and up to fifteen years). A simple "titer" test of blood drawn from your dog can indicate whether your dog's protection against disease is adequate.

Why not just go ahead and vaccinate, "just to be safe"? The answer is that vaccinations are neither totally harmless, nor totally safe, especially for dogs whose immune systems are already compromised, as happens in epileptic dogs. Vaccinations, especially when used in excess of what is needed, are suspected of causing many serious problems in dogs: seizures, pancreatitis, inflammatory bowel disease, encephalitis, and even the very diseases they are supposed to protect your dog against!

Whereas ten years ago it was standard practice to vaccinate dogs every year with a wide variety of vaccinations, all at once, vaccination protocols are changing. Annual vaccination is in fact completely arbitrary, unsupported by science. Many clinics now recommend vaccination only every three years and limit the number of vaccinations they advise for all dogs, as well as the number of antigens they will introduce during one visit.

Even if your dog in the past has had no discernible negative response to vaccinations, each time you vaccinate unnecessarily, you put your dog at greater and greater risk, since each vaccination is yet another assault on your dog's immune system. Dogs who are ill, as epileptics certainly are, already have major challenges to their immune system, just dealing with epilepsy. They are therefore more susceptible to an adverse reaction to vaccinations, which further compromise an already compromised immune system.

Talk with your vet about options to annual vaccinations, and to the use of "polyvalent" (multiple) vaccinations, which have a record of many more complications than single vaccinations administered several weeks apart. Find out which diseases your dog may reasonably be exposed to in your area, and which diseases are not at all prevalent. Some vaccinations are only advisable or required if your dog is to be boarded. Others, like the one for kennel cough, have a history of causing more harm than good (dogs vaccinated for kennel cough are more likely to get the disease than those who are not vaccinated for it); others, like the one for corona virus, are given against a disease so rare that one vet termed this "a vaccine looking for a disease." Still others, like the one for Leptospirosis, is often ineffective: the bacterial disease of Leptospirosis has at least 200 subgroups that vary from region to region, and unless your dog is vaccinated against the precise subgroup he/she encounters, the vaccination (which contains only two of the subgroups) will offer no protection. Others, like the canine hepatitis vaccine and the distemper vaccine, should not be given at the same time, to avoid serious potential reactions.

The only vaccine required by law is the one for rabies. Unfortunately, this vaccine is the one that has been implicated in the most serious side effects... among other things, seizures may develop or be worsened by this vaccine. It is always advisable, if you absolutely must get this vaccine for your dog, that it be given alone, at least 4-6 weeks before or after any other vaccine.

Your options other than annual vaccination are many: have titers done to test your dog's immunity and only vaccinate when immunity has dropped; discuss with your veterinarian what vaccinations you may be able to safely omit for your dog; insist that vaccinations be given one at a time to avoid increasing their risks; ask your veterinarian to sign a waiver so that your dog does not need to get the rabies vaccine, especially if you have seen a reaction to this vaccine in the past.

Only you and your vet can decide which vaccinations are necessary for your dog and which are not. For an epileptic dog, however, it is always advisable to avoid vaccinations if your dog already has adequate protection.

(Main source and suggested reading: "Vaccine Guide for Dogs & Cats: What Every Pet Lover Should Know" by Catherine J. M. Diodati.)

...http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/FAQ.htm#vaccinated

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:19 pm Post subject:

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