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Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:40 pm Post subject: City boy seeks advice…

I purchased several packages of Frontline Plus from a pet store which treats all parasites but heartworms. A friend in the animal welfare biz suggested I purchase a 50 CC bottle of Ivermectin from farm supply store and administer for eartworms according to directions to my dogs…1/10 of a CC per 10 lbs of weight…orally per month

Any concerns and or thoughts about this…

Thanks in advance

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:58 am Post subject:

Hi City Boy
First of all Frontline plus treats fleas and ticks. Supposedly it "controls" roundworms, but I'm skeptical about this and it certainly is of little use against tapeworms and other internal parasites.

I'd be very leary about using ivermectin for de-worming a dog. Some dogs, notably collies and related herding breeds but other breeds as well, have a mutant gene which makes administering ivermectin and related drugs at any dose higher than that found in monthly heartworm preventatives VERY dangerous.

This place (in Australia) sells much safer de-worming preparations for dogs. You want a de-wormer containing praziquantel in combination with one of the older medications such as oxibendazole. This is the one I use for my dogs and cats.
http://www.pets-megastore.com.au/wormoutbyvetafarm-c-165_161_190.html

As far as monthly heartworm preventative, the link above sells these as well, at a much cheaper price than from your vet and no prescription needed. These HW drugs are packaged and measured specifically for dogs, and much safer than playing Russian roulette with ivermectin packaged for livestock.

Hope this info helps.

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:10 pm Post subject:

Before you do anything about heartworms, have the dog tested for their presence. It does make a difference. If the dog is infected, and medicated improperly, you can kill the dog. Talk to your vet about any medication. I do not trust grocery store dog meds, but that is just me. I do trust my vet. I live in an area with lots of mosquitoes and an increasing heart worm rate. Most heartworm meds are based on preventing an infection by messing with the growth of heartworms. It is serious business.

A lot of kennels will use bulk ivermectin purchased from farm stores, but they still talk to an expert to learn how.

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:38 pm Post subject:

Not true Doug. This precaution applied to the old first generation daily HW preventatives. Modern monthly heartworm preventative medications can be used safely on dogs who are HW positive, and in fact are sometimes used in lieu of treatment for older infirmed HW positive dogs too weak to survive HW treatment.

However you are correct that all dogs should see a vet for an annual checkup, and should be tested for heartworm as well as for Lyme and other tick born diseases annually.

Not sure what you mean by "grocery store medications" but the medications carried at the link I posted are trusted brands with safety records as high as any sold in this country... and certainly safer than livestock formulations, for the reasons I mentioned. No veterinarian in any country would recommend using ivermectin from a feed store on a dog.

And, on edit, petsmegastore sells many of the same brands of monthly heartworm preventative meds sold in this country (although their generic valuheart, is identical to heartgard and a better value.)

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:30 pm Post subject:

I would take your dog to the vet and see what they say. Cool

Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:41 pm Post subject:

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:02 am Post subject:

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:54 am Post subject:

I always test my dogs annually so I've never requested HW meds w/o testing (and I don't buy my HW meds from my vet anyways.)

However I have been told by my vet that all the monthly HW preventative meds can be safely given to HW positive dogs, and that it was the old daily pills (carbamazine citrate, if memory serves) that could not be given to a dog who had heartworm without dire consequences.

Also many rescue groups forgo HW treatment for very old infirmed dogs who would not survive the treatment, and instead just keep these oldsters on monthly preventative HW meds for the rest of their lives to curtail the proliferation of their heartworms.

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:07 am Post subject: Re: City boy seeks advice…

http://www.heartwormsociety.org/pet-owner-resources/canine-heartworm.html

This site explains what is involved with heartworms. Not all Ivermectine is the same concentration. Talk to your vet first. A well trained professional who actually sees your dog is the best source for medical information. Any med, given improperly, can kill. Apparently Ivermectin has a wide range of safety, but it is still a med. It's best to be sure. I hate burying dogs.

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:45 pm Post subject:

All ivermectin (and related compounds) found in monthly heartworm prevention pills are the same low concentration.

Ivermectin is used at higher doses for certain other purposes, such as treating mange and for de-worming.

Some individual dogs (particularly collies and related herding breeds) have a mutant gene which makes ivermectin and related medications dangerous at these higher doses. The ivermectin (and related compounds) in monthly HW pills is a safe dose for dogs with and without the mutant gene AND safe for dogs who are HW positive.

My vets have confirmed the latter, and you can find info about drug sensitivity due to the mutant gene and appropriate dosing at the Wash State U site here:
[url]http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-VCPL/FAQ.aspx [/url]
Here's an exerpt:
"What heartworm prevention products can I use if my dog has the MDR1 mutation?

Fortunately, the dose of ivermectin, selamectin, milbemycin and moxidectin in the commercial heartworm preparations are low enough to be used safely even in dogs with the MDR1 mutation. It is only when the drugs are used at high doses, such as those used to treat mange (50 times higher dose than the heartworm prevention dose), that dogs with the mutation will develop neurological toxicity. Attempting to use large animal formulations of these drugs is likely to cause neurological toxicity because it is difficult to accurately measure"

There are those who dose dogs with ivermectin that is formulated for de-worming livestock, and as I've stated, and which is confirmed by the researchers at WSU (above) this is playing Russian roulette for any dog carrying the mutant gene for the reasons given.

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:31 pm Post subject:

Frontline (and Frontline Plus) does not treat heartworms. It kills fleas and ticks, and no other parasites.

As I mentioned in the Animal Community forum, the active ingredient in Frontline (Fipronil) was deregulated, and there's now a generic called FiproGuard Plus (and also FiproGuard for dogs). Just like Frontline, the "plus" includes an insect growth regulator that prevents development of flea pupae.

There are generic once monthly Ivermectin heartworm preventatives that are cheaper than the name brands, and don't have the dosing concerns of buying Ivermectin in bulk, since it's formulated for dogs. Maybe that's an option for you (though you'll still need a prescription, and have your dog tested for HW if he/she hasn't been on the preventative since last summer). Generic heartworm preventatives are:

ValuHeart

Nuheart
Proheart
Tri-Heart Plus
Iverhart
Iverhart Max

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:20 pm Post subject:

A couple of things...

SPedigrees wrote:

I'd be very leary about using ivermectin for de-worming a dog. Some dogs, notably collies and related herding breeds but other breeds as well, have a mutant gene which makes administering ivermectin and related drugs at any dose higher than that found in monthly heartworm preventatives VERY dangerous.

Since you didn't say what kind of dog you have (and because there are those who lurk without posting), I want to put out the reminder that dogs with those previously mentioned breeds in their lineage may have similar issues. We don't know the breeds in our beloved mutt, Callie, but learned the hard way that she reacts poorly to a discontinued product called ProHeart (injected HW preventative). Fortunately, we got her to an ER vet in time.

--------

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:13 pm Post subject:

I would not suggest the bottle of ivermectin from the store. I was just looking this up. While it can be fine, it is very easy to improperly dose your dog. I do not want to take that chance with my pets, so I will go ahead with the pills.

They do sell some pills that do heartworms and fleas, Sentinel and Trifexis. I just bought the Trifexis, it was $59 for 6 mo, but that was full price at the vet.

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:48 am Post subject:

Thanks to all who responded with advice and or information....it was very helpful....

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