Petfinder.com forums :: View topic - Senior Dog Adoption And Care w/Julie Nowicki!! Nov. 9th! [ ]

In honor of Adopt-A-Senior-Pet Month, we are excited to be able to bring you a two part discussion on senior pet adoption and care!

We are thrilled to have Julie Nowicki from the Grey Muzzle Organization with us to answer all of your questions on senior dog adoption and care.

Julie is the founder and president of The Grey Muzzle Organization, a non-profit that improves the lives of at-risk senior dogs by providing funding and resources to animal shelters, rescue organizations, sanctuaries, and other non-profit groups nationwide.

Julie has over 20 years experience in business management, customer research, and technology management. After working as a consultant and employee of for-profit businesses for many years, Julie left her job at Microsoft in 2008 to take a chance on a dream, and launched Grey Muzzle. In its first year Grey Muzzle has taken off with the support of senior dog lovers around the country. The organization made grants to 19 rescues and shelters in 12 states in their first year, and sent beds for senior dogs to 13 animal organizations, mostly shelters.

Julie feels that her most rewarding life work has been helping old dogs. In addition to her work with Grey Muzzle, she has fostered and shared her life with many senior dogs. She lives in Wake Forest, North Carolina with her husband Barry (who keeps everyone laughing when it gets a bit crazy), their two old rescued dogs of about 14 and 11, and currently, one very small foster Chihuahua who was a puppy mill momma.

Welcome Julie!!

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:15 pm Post subject:

Hi Julie, and welcome! Thanks for helping the seniors!

I have a couple of questions.

I have been pretty lucky with my adopted senior pets, Mimi (adopted at 13, passed at 14 1/2) and Bo (adopted at 10, now 11), as far as them fitting in to the family, and not moping and depressed. From day 1 in the house, they acted like they had been there forever.

After Bo, I will probably get another senior.

How can I make the transition into my home as comfortable as possible for my next dog, should things not go as smoothly?

The HS had run a senior blood panel on Bo before his neuter, and discovered thyroid problems. (He was energetic and underweight, so the results were not really expected.) He also had 6 teeth pulled and a grade 2-3 heart murmur.

Luckily, I have an excellent vet, so his health is monitored.

What medical testing would you recommend be done when you adopt a senior, particularly one with an unknown medical history?

Julie's Answer:

Hi PrincessLucy! First, how wonderful that you have adopted older dogs! They are truly such great companions and there are so many in need, homes like yours are precious indeed. You have experienced something very common with fostered or adopted senior dogs - they often do just settle right in! I believe it's because they've been "around the block" a time or two and they know a good home when they see it. I think that's why senior dogs bond to their new humans just as strongly as a younger dog would .

As far as what medical testing to do for an adopted senior, especially one with an unknown background….I checked in with several of the vets on the Grey Muzzle Advisory Board. Dr. Lisa Bennett is a vet in Issaquah, WA who works with a lot of senior dogs, including rescues. She recommends urinalysis (very important), a CBC (your senior blood panel with T4), a chemistry +/- appropriate thyroid testing. I do all those things for my new guys, plus my current ones twice a year.

Dr. Fred Metzger, who is a leading geriatric vet who frequently teaches and consults with other vets, also emphasizes the importance of blood and urine testing. He says that most diseases we find in seniors can be caught early on with these tests, such as diminished liver or kidney function. If you catch them early, you can often do much more for the dog. So, for an old dog, don't wait to do these tests until there are symptoms that indicate testing. I run blood and urine tests on ALL older dogs that come to my home, no matter how healthy they seem.

For a new senior dog, Dr. Metzger would also recommend a full profile including a CBC, chemistry profile, thyroid test, urinalysis and heartworm/ tick disease screen.

Dr. Metzger also stresses the importance of taking care of the dental issues, as you are doing, saying that “older dogs and cats with neglected teeth are time bombs ticking.” The bacteria from gingivitis can effect all body systems.

I have personally found that sometimes testing for worms is overlooked. Not something we want to think about, but very common with rescued dogs, and unfortunately, easily passed to your own guys. I would do a heartworm test even if you aren't in an area with a high incidence of heartworm. It is getting more prevalent all over the country, and with a rescued dog, you don't know where they've been!

Be sure to ask your vet to test for the Giardia parasite for a new dog as well. It's important to use the fecal centrifugation method, not just the fecal float test. The float test is cheap and a lot of vets can do it in house, but it's not very accurate at all. I've had a lot of problems with Giardia in rescued dogs - it's quite pervasive - lives even in cold water for a long time, and dogs can get it just by stepping in a puddle. It can easily move to your current dogs and be very difficult to get rid of, and it can also infect humans, so it's something to test for, definitely.

BTW, Dr. Bennett mentioned that dogs that have issues sometimes show up as hypothyroid on a total T4, and once the issues are resolved it goes away. Especially since the results were surprising for Bo, you might want to ask your vet if the T4 panel from the HS included a "free T4" and "TSH" (according to Dr. Bennett this will tell you if it's just a "false positive" on the total T4).

Now, on to integrating "new old" dogs. Sounds like you haven't had problems before, and honestly, the older guys are often more mellow. I actually have had more foster dogs that are timid or shy than aggressive with the other dogs. They usually try real hard to fit in. I think it's very comforting to a new dog to come into a household with existing dogs - they can just follow along for awhile until they learn the routine, and the presence of the other dogs seems to reassure them that this is a safe place.

Of course, there's always the occasional older dog that is under-socialized and/or unconfident enough to do a bit of inappropriate "pushing the boundaries" with the other dogs. I have one of those myself! Here's a few things that have helped me:

Many trainers recommend introducing the dogs on neutral territory, especially if one of your current dogs is a bit protective of his or her home. You can take the dogs for a walk in the park together, then let them have a bit of off-leash time in a safe spot to get to know each other.

Don't subject the new dog to too much excitement right away. An older dog who's been in a shelter may be totally exhausted. They'll appreciate a quite place to sleep for a few days much more than meeting all the neighbors.

I always establish a routine for the new dog right away - where to sleep, where to eat, etc. Routine is very comforting for dogs, especially at first. I make sure they have their own "safe spot", such as a crate (you can leave the door open if they are at that point) or a bed in a quiet corner that the other dogs are not to use. Show the new dog their "spot" and praise them for being there. Some older dogs will just lie there and watch the family activities for a time before joining in. And some never need a "safe spot", but I always offer it. They'll let you know when they've outgrown it, or they may choose a different spot (under the coffee table), but I always make sure they have space that is their own.

I also make sure to give the current dogs EXTRA attention when the new dog arrives and whenever the new dog comes around. That way your dogs don't get jealous of the new guy, and in fact, they start to see the new family member as a GOOD thing! Be sure not to take away any perks from your current pack because you feel bad for the new one - like that cushy spot under your desk. Feed your current dogs first in whatever order you usually do; the new dog is last.

At some point they will establish their own hierarchy (or if they're all really mellow this may never really be apparent), and you can go with that, but I don't let the new dog take charge right away if they seem so inclined.

For me, most of the issues come from the personalities of my current dogs, not from the new one, who (especially as an older, wiser, and more seasoned dog) will be trying to fit into the pack. So knowing your guys and anticipating ahead of time will get you far.

It sounds like you are definitely on the right track! You can find more information and details in the Grey Muzzle article, Caring For Your Senior Dog, in the Petfinder Library. Thanks again for adopting the seniors!

Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:45 pm Post subject:

Hi Julie, thanks for being here!

I have been considering adopting a senior dog and currently have a 2 1/2 year old spaniel mix. Overall, my dog is well behaved but because he is young he can sometimes a bit rambunctious Smile

My main concern is that this might bother an older dog... What are your thoughts on having two dogs with an age difference?

Julie's Answer:

Hi Kelly! Thanks for thinking about adding a senior dog to your family! Whether or not the young and old ones enjoy each other is entirely a function of the personalities of the two dogs. I’ve seen older dogs and young dogs get along absolutely divinely; in fact, I recently placed a foster dog of less than one year, in a home with a senior dog who is living his last several years with a non-treatable cancer. (BTW, this was the only young foster dog we’ve had in years, and after losing a couple of slippers and a couch pillow, we remembered why we love the seniors J.) This younger dog absolutely lit up the life of the older dog; they love to play, they sleep together, the older one taught the younger one to swim, etc. On the other hand, I have seen young dogs annoy the heck out of an older dog – although this may sometimes not be as bad as it appears. Even though it’s a bit disconcerting for us, it’s perfectly normal for an older dog to “correct” a younger dog with a growl, letting them know when a behavior (“wanna play, huh, wanna play NOW, huh, huh????”) is not appropriate. The dogs really think nothing of it, you shouldn’t either unless it escalates to physical encounters.

Whether it’s successful may depend partly on how well your young spaniel takes these “corrections” from an older dog to heart. But much of it will depend on the patience and personality of the senior dog. Some will love a young companion; it keeps them young.

Since you want a senior dog with a certain personality, in this case, I would not recommend adopting a dog directly from a shelter. As much as I want to see the old guys out of the shelters, in this case, I’d suggest working with a reputable rescue group instead. You are still helping a dog who has no home of his own, and as soon as you adopt a dog from a rescue, they will be able to take another dog from a shelter. The big advantage of working with a good rescue group, is that they will have had the dog in a foster home and they can tell you a lot about the dog.

Be very clear that you want a senior dog that is comfortable with younger dogs. Also, find out if they have a trial period, or what they will do if the situation just doesn’t work out—but on your end, be prepared to be patient and allow a few weeks or even months for the dogs to work out their relationship. If the rescue doesn’t seem to be taking your needs to heart, move on to another rescue. Chances are there will be a good rescue in your area that will have seniors in situations with younger dogs in a foster home. You may have to wait a bit longer to find the right match, but it will be worth it! The key is to let the rescue help you find the right dog.

The same advice goes for anyone who is looking for a senior with certain personality traits, such as kid-friendly. A good rescue will be able to minimize the risk of a bad match.

You can check Petfinder and filter on Senior dogs to see what rescues in your area seem to be senior dog friendly. Also, the Grey Muzzle site lists organizations that we support at www.greymuzzle.org/where. All of these organizations would love to hear from you, and transportation can often be arranged.

Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:38 pm Post subject:

I am seriously considering adding a second dog to my home and by far would prefer an older dog. But I have only had the one dog and I am concerned about dealing with the whole pack order thing. I have had my dog for about 8 years and he is nearing 10 years old. Is it likely he will be grumpy about sharing a home with another dog? Is it really that necessary to defer to one over the other?

He is a hound mix and was quite shy when we adopted him. No one would describe him as shy now though. Very Happy

Since I learned a lot about shy dogs and have a quiet household I would like to focus on those kinds of personalities if possible. Would my current dog revert to old behaviors if he observed them day to day? Or is it more likely he would become bossy since he has overcome so many of those behaviors?

Thank you very much for the work you do. Very Happy

Julie's Answer:

I have to admit that I love the shy ones, too. For some reason they just speak to my heart.

I think that adding a 2nd senior to your home is likely to be easier to manage and less stressful on your Hound friend than adding a younger dog (although some old/young pairs get along wonderfully, see my notes to KellyT above). In general, though, they will just be a closer match, especially since you already have a senior guy, unlike KellyT. I think it's very unlikely that your Hound will revert to old behaviors. At this point he's established and comfortable in his role; I've personally never seen a dog "revert", although behaviors may change somewhat if he is jealous or challenged by the new dog initially (another reason why a new senior is less threatening). It's more likely that he'll be a great role model for the new shy one, helping him come out of his/her shell much sooner, because there's someone there to show the new dog the ropes.

When you get the new dog, I do think it's important to defer to your current dog at first. You want the newcomer to be a good experience for him, not a cause for jealousy. The new one won't resent this -- they're well aware that they're the new guy on the block and needing to fit into the pack. Sometimes, especially with a new,shy dog, you tend to want to lavish attention on that dog and you want to be careful not to overdo it; make sure your Hound is getting more attention at first.

Over time, you may find that the hierarchy switches (the new dog becomes the leader) and then you can go with that, but let them work that out themselves. Or with two mellow old guys, to us humans things may appear to be very equal between them.

As to whether your Hound will be grumpy or bossy - he's not likely to display any behaviors that you haven't already observed in him, given the opportunity. How is he when he meets new dogs, now, or when other dogs visit your home? Is he eager to meet them or standoff'ish? That will give you a clue what to expect, but also realize that meeting another dog on neutral territory is a bit different than the new dog coming into his territory (your home).

Hounds as a breed tend to be extremely social to each other because most were bred to work in packs, so given his breed I think you have a pretty good chance of him being happy about a friend.

You might want to check out my answer to KellyT above, too, some of my answer there is relevant to you as well. How exciting that you will be able to help another old, shy dog!

Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:39 pm Post subject:

Thank you, Julie, for coming to help the board.

To make a fairly long story short, about three months ago I adopted a bonded pair of seniors (golden retriever) that I had been fostering. The ten-year old male is just a big, goofy social guy with no major problems. The eight-year-old female is mostly blind and quite deaf. She seems to see movement, but that's about it. The male seem to have acted as her "seeing eye dog". Kyra, the female, gets extremely nervous in crowds and with new situations. She is very, very happy being at home with either my original dog (Chance) or Buddy, the ten-year old. Both Chance and Buddy take turns coming to work with me and being around lots of people which they both love.

Kyra is okay with an occasional visitor, and does not seem uncomfortable around a friendly visiting dog. But in a large group of people or dogs she starts to panic.

She's not going to bite anyone or anything - had most of her teeth removed when she came into rescue! My question is - should I encourage her to be around more people or just let her be? How far do you go in teaching an older dog new tricks?

Julie's Answer:

What a great question! To me it really goes to the heart of our relationship with old or special needs dogs. You can, of course, teach an old dog new tricks. The question is, should you? I believe that we train family dogs for two reasons: we want the dog to be happy, comfortable, and confident in their role, and, we want them to fit into our lives well so that we are comfortable and happy, too!

So, the first question I would ask is, is there anything about Kyra's current situation that is causing her to be unhappy? For example, is she unhappy left home alone because she can't participate in the days out? From what you describe, it sounds like she typically has Chance or Buddy home with her and is good with that.

Second, is there anything about the current situation that is causing YOU to be unhappy (you're allowed to think about yourself, too!) Can you not do things that you'd like to do because of Kyra's panic attacks? Again, I don't see anything in your note that indicates "yes", but it's definitely something to think about.

So, if you answered No to both these questions--gosh, everyone is happy and why put Kyra through the stress that will be associated with learning new behaviors (which may or may not be totally successful)? Five trainers just groaned Smile

But the question is really: Why would you do it, is there a good reason for Kyra or for you. Don't worry about what you "should" do or what someone else thinks you should do.

If Kyra was totally isolated from visitors I would worry that she will lose all social skills over time, but it sounds like she still has stimulation at home of meeting new people and dogs.

Our ancient dog that passed away in April was terribly geriatric and terribly stubborn. I thought about trying to teach her to be more cooperative -- but geez, at her age, with not much time remaining to her, why bother? I could pick her up and move her around if needed. And my most important goal for this old dog, at that stage of her life, was to make sure she had the most good moments, and the fewest bad moments, that I could possibly give her. The word "spoil" just didn't seem to be relevant anymore, after all she'd already suffered in her life.

Posted Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:01 pm:

Thank you so much, Julie! You confirmed what my heart told me. I'm happy, Kyra is happy, my other two dogs are happy. I was just afraid I was limiting Kyra's world as confusing as her world must be.

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:18 pm Post subject:

Welcome Julie!

I currently have a 10 year old lab mix who has begun to develop some arthritis Sad

He moves around really well, but I have noticed he is sort of stiff after lying down for awhile or after playing a little too much in the yard. Is there anything you would recommend to help ease some of the discomfort or maybe help slow the progression of arthritis?

Thanks!

Julie's Answer:

Hi there! It’s great that you are being diligent about managing the old age aches and pains. Many people just say “oh, well, they are getting old…” but there’s really quite a bit you can do to help make them more comfortable.

Dr. Lisa Bennett in Issaquah, WA is on our Grey Muzzle Advisory Board and she had these thoughts:

“Although arthritis is likely, did your veterinarian make the diagnosis and exclude other reasons? Some medical problems other than arthritis may be at play and you wouldn't want a misdiagnosis. Some things that cause orthopedic signs are surgically correctable, other things can be resolved medically. Other things may be controlled with medications, supplements, diet, weight control and acupuncture or other therapies. But the first thing is to find out the real problems to get the best for your pet.”

I won’t say too much about veterinary-prescribed medications as you should work with your vet if you go that route. If you are interested in holistic care, you might consider alternatives approaches like acupuncture, as well.

Three of the most common and proven supplements for joint care in older dogs are Glucosamine, Chondroitin, and MSM. All of my senior dogs get these supplements every day; they get more (especially MSM, which provides pain relief) if they are having joint/arthritis issues. Be careful on the quality of these supplements. For example, there are lots of Glucosamine supplements out there, and not all are very high quality. I use the Nutramax brand products because that company has an excellent reputation. I was using Cosequin from Nutramax, which has Glucosamine and Chondroitin, but I recently switched to their new Dasuquin product which as higher levels of those as well as lots of MSM. If you search on the web you can find some pretty good deals on bulk quantities even on the high-quality brands. Dr. Fred Metzger, who is also on our Advisory Board, suggests an exam first as does Dr. Bennett, and agrees that Glucosamine and Chondroitin can benefit many older dogs. He suggests asking your vet for a recommended product.

Another little trick that I learned from a vet: the MSM products for dogs are very expensive, but MSM for horses in granular form, is exactly the same thing (as long as it is pure) and a small fraction of the price. You should check with your vet on doses, but I used to give two1/4 teaspoons of pure MSM granules per day to my older guy who has lots of arthritis issues. (I cut that in half when I started using Dasuquin.) This allowed me to give about 2000 mg per day which would have been outrageously expensive in the “dog” form.

I’m very glad that Dr. Bennett mentioned weight control. Old dogs can tend to gain weight as they get less active, and this can aggravate pressure on joints and arthritis. We have a nutritionist on our Advisory Board, Dr. Susan Lauten, and she is adamant about weight control for health. She has research showing that being overweight can take away two years from a dog’s life. And being overweight certainly makes them more uncomfortable if they are arthritic.

There are also some basic things you can do at home that go a long way. A good orthopedic bed is one of them. Big puffy beds are difficult for older dogs to get in and out of, and don’t provide enough support. My dogs all love orthopedic beds (even the ones that aren’t geriatric). They either have at least four inches of orthopedic foam, or memory foam. If your dog is not used to a bed, you’ll have to encourage him at first, but he’ll soon get the idea!

Another important home-care item is providing traction. If you have hard floors, you might want to think about putting down some washable, foam-backed rungs in strategic places, like in front of food bowls and doors. Keeping toenails short helps tremendously with traction, as does something people often don’t think about: trimming the slippery fur between toes! Smile

Thanks for working with your lab friend to make him more comfortable, and I’m sure he still has many good years to look forward to!

Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:16 pm Post subject:

I have adopted 4 Senior Dogs and 3 of my other dogs are now Seniors.

It pains me to know that even my local shelter often sees a Senior dog as "unadoptable" simply because it is a Senior. (Since Seniors often have medical issues, they are often PTS rather than treated for their medical problems and then adopted out.)

I adopted a 15 year-old dog who was in very rough shape. Two years later she's happy, healthy, bright-eyed, and an absolute joy in my life! Whatever I may have given her, she has returned a hundred times over! I was lucky that the shelter in another state was willing to let her be adopted. I don't think she would have had a chance to be adopted from my local shelter.

How can I best approach the shelter in order to help change this mindset? I know the shelter manager/director does not take kindly to suggestions from anyone outside the organization. How do I maneuver this territory politically?

Thank you for the work you do!

Julie's Answer:

Hi Furperson. It’s so fantastic to experience what you have – the joy of helping an older dog recover and shine again! As you say, you get back everything and more, for sure.

The problem you describe with your local shelter is a tough one. At Grey Muzzle, we see a full range of shelters – from shelters that won’t even try to adopt a senior dog, to shelters with special programs to get senior dogs new homes. These are becoming more common. An example is the Red Collar Society at Southeast Volusia Humane Society in Florida, http://www.sevhs.com/adopt-a-friend/red-collar-society. Another example is seniors-for-seniors programs that encourage senior people to adopt senior pets.

I would suggest using these as examples for your local shelter – but that requires not only an open mind and willingness to change on their part, but the resources to pull together such a program. You are the best judge of whether they are at that point or not. Give what you describe, I think it would be pretty hard to move from where they are to a full senior program.

For shelters that are in the mindset that you describe, the best change mechanism I’ve seen is partnering with rescues. Many rural shelters that have very little chance of adopting their older dogs, work with a range of rescues, some of which are senior friendly. This is a very easy, no-cost, practically-no-effort way for a shelter to get a senior dog (or any dog) moved. The transports now are absolutely fantastic, so the rescues, especially those that help the seniors, don’t necessarily have to be right next door. Rescue-shelter partnerships are growing and doing amazing things to help animals, and especially seniors and special needs.

I don’t know if your shelter already has a mechanism to work with rescues, but it might be easier to encourage that than to change the senior mindset per se. I work with a VERY small rural shelter that has a method set up for working with rescues. Then, if you want to help, you could focus on recruiting rescues that are senior-friendly and willing to work with your shelter.

The fact is that senior dogs are adoptable and there are people who not only want, but cherish them. The success stories on Petfinder, our site (www.greymuzzle.org/dogs), and organizations like St. Louis Senior Dog Project (http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/olderbetter.html) testify to that. Realistically, it’s also true that older dogs cost more on average to prepare for adoption – the medical costs that you point out, and this can be a barrier for some rescues or shelters working with old dogs. And, older dogs need to be “marketed” somewhat differently, for example, by visiting senior housing developments. This is why Grey Muzzle exists, to help lower some of those barriers. And of course, it really only all comes together through the efforts of people like yourself. Thank you!!!

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